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Opened 6 years ago

Closed 3 years ago

Last modified 3 years ago

#5037 closed enhancement (fixed)

"Group" term everywhere leads to mistakes in usage/translation

Reported by: Dianakc Owned by: slaFFik
Milestone: 2.8 Priority: normal
Severity: minor Version: 1.7
Component: I18N Keywords: 2nd-opinion needs-patch close
Cc:

Description

Hello,

I find that the word group should be kept to only Group-related items.

An example:
Using the word in Profile Fields are leading som confusing because users tend to think that page is related to Groups.
Here the word group is being in use while this page has nothing to do with BP Groups at all. Maybe should be field set or something alike.

(I noted that the string Edit Group can't be translated differently for Profle Fields page becase is shared with Group related items :( )

Thanks for any feedback

Change History (14)

#1 @boonebgorges
6 years ago

  • Keywords needs-patch added
  • Milestone changed from Awaiting Review to Future Release

Hm, I agree that the mixed use of 'group' is not great. Moving to Future Release for further discussion.

#2 @DJPaul
3 years ago

  • Component changed from Locale - i18n to I18N

#3 @slaFFik
3 years ago

Semantics matter.

What about using the word "Set" instead?
Set of fields, Edit Set, Add New Field Set. Labels are easy to fix, but the code is using group as well.

I propose the easy labeling fix just for this tickets, and not touch the code for BC as well.

What do you think, @boonebgorges?

#4 follow-up: @boonebgorges
3 years ago

I agree that we shouldn't make any changes to the code - "profile field group" will have to remain the technical term.

"Set" is not bad, though it sounds too ambiguous to my ear. I think it'd have to be "field set" everywhere: "Edit Field Set", "Add New Field Set", etc.

Opinions from others? @DJPaul what does your British ear say? @mercime What do you think?

#5 in reply to: ↑ 4 @mercime
3 years ago

Replying to boonebgorges:

I agree that we shouldn't make any changes to the code - "profile field group" will have to remain the technical term.

"Set" is not bad, though it sounds too ambiguous to my ear. I think it'd have to be "field set" everywhere: "Edit Field Set", "Add New Field Set", etc.

Sounds good to me :)

#6 @DJPaul
3 years ago

No, I think we should just add context to these identical strings to remove the ambiguity.

I couldn't quite put my finger on what I didn't like. I chatted internally at Human Made to get another opinion, and @petya said the following (slightly formatted by me), which I agree with:

I don't like the word "set" because in my language it's very hard to make sense of it in the context of items on a screen. I'd automatically know what a profile field group means. For me "a set" is something that is actually finalized - so nothing can be added or removed from it. Perhaps it's because of the meaning of the verb.
As a non-native English speaker "a group" is easier for me to understand. Perhaps because I also know what functionality you're talking about and wouldn't want to see it renamed unless there's a good reason.

#7 @petya
3 years ago

Because I see translation is one of the concerns here, I would generally recommend adding translation comments and context to the strings instead of changing them. If there is a concern that "group" in this context might be mistaken with user groups, the "Edit Group" string can be changed to "Edit Profile Fields Group" or "Edit Fields Group". That will make the string longer, but clearer for both users and translators.

Keeping the development term unchanged and changing the string may cause further confusion as many translators look at the source code for a reference when the translator comments are missing. You've been doing an amazing job at adding comments for the past several releases. Perhaps that needs to happen for older strings as well :)

#8 @slaFFik
3 years ago

  • Milestone changed from Future Release to 2.8
  • Owner set to slaFFik
  • Status changed from new to assigned

Taking into account 2 possible proposed solutions: "Edit Profile Fields Group" vs _x('Edit Group', 'Edit Profile Fields Group', 'buddypress') - I would go with the second one, as this is imo a better approach to help translators better understand the context, while preserving the laconicism.

#9 @boonebgorges
3 years ago

Yes, that's probably fine for translators, but do we think that the "group" terminology is confusing for end-users as well (in English)? It's always struck me as a little weird.

#10 @hnla
3 years ago

Feels to me as though this is a mountain out of a molehill. In English we use many words spelt/pronounced the same that have subtly varying meaning given their context? I do not really see where the confusion lies, we have used the word 'Group' to describe our component handling sectioned groups of users, however the use of groups in the sense here under discussion of xprofile is perfectly valid we do create groups of profiles so to refer to them as groups is correct, further we do tend to describe them further as variously Profile group, Editing 'Base' Profile Group or Add New Field Group so we use the word within a specified context, where's the confusion? We do state Edit Group but that is within the context of the the Add New Field Group so we've defined what editing that 'group' should refer to.

#11 @slaffik
3 years ago

In 11371:

Internationalization: "Group" term in Profile leads to mistakes in usage/translation.

Add context to Edit Group and Delete Group to identical with Groups component strings to remove the ambiguity.

Props petya, boonebgorges, Dianakc, DJPaul.
See #5037.

#12 @slaFFik
3 years ago

  • Keywords close added

I've committed adding context, not sure that anything else should be done here.
Accessibility improvements should be done independently, for the whole admin area screen, not just these 2 links.
So I propose to close this ticket, and preserve Group usage as suggested above.

#13 @DJPaul
3 years ago

  • Resolution set to fixed
  • Status changed from assigned to closed

#14 @slaffik
3 years ago

In 11374:

Internationalization: "Group" term in Profile leads to mistakes in usage/translation.

Add context to Add New Group to remove the ambiguity.

See #5037.

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